Right now this boss is just too nasty to bother with. I went in there last night and had a go. He's got ~15-20 implosions, with DC 68 (i think), so it pretty much always kills you. I've got the Mordkainen's Ring, but even his lesser dispells removes the 100 SR, and he's got about 50+ dispells that he casts in between the implosions. I figured since I'm immortal I'd just have him waste his implosions on me for about 30 minutes, and then go at him once he's out of implodes. Unfortunately, even with 47 AB fully buffed, it seems I could only hit him on 20 (didn't check combat log for it, but I barely ever hit him, even while fully buffed). After about 2 hours and half an inventory worth of heal potions, I got him to badly wounded. But once all my heals were out, I figured there was little point in continuing, so I left.
The AC is fine, as he's a major boss and all that (and he has no regen, thank god), but I doubt Tresspasser intended him to insta-gib people 15+ times with implosion. Is there any chance you can either make it so that his dispell don't remove Mordkainen's Ring 100 SR effect, or remove/lower DC on his Implosions?
About the UB3RL33T CH1CK3N 0F D00M
Re: About the UB3RL33T CH1CK3N 0F D00M
I remember him being pretty much as described on the AW servers. Can any of the others who remember going up against him confirm or deny this? I don't think I ever managed to solo the chicken coop but found it quite doable with a buddy or two and some tactics. 
Re: About the UB3RL33T CH1CK3N 0F D00M
Spell mantle is the key word for the boss it self. As for going there solo with melee, not knowing what you are up agaisnt and failing is something i wouldnt be too upset anyway.. As if you say you spend tons of heals in fight - it can be soloed by using 1-5 heals with proper equipment and tactic & class.
[before 1.67 implosion caused no problems as it was stopped by death magic immunity - vanilla poa is updated pre 1.67.]
Maybe should of started this as different topic, but too lazy and i apologise for that.
Implosion is being more of a problem in players use than NPCs, as above mentioned bird is only one to use it. It can be seen on low fort on almost every lvl 20 enemy there (all normal drows for example having like tops 23fort). Some even of the higher level things has tiny fort save. Maybe should of noted this as PM to Kal but opening public discussion about implosion being used by players on bosses here. Best example here would be MoaD, currently (if Kal hasnt fixed her) only damage type that works on her are rare types (divine, negative, positive and magic) and even from those magical is about 80% immunity + she has un reachable AC + spell level 7 and down immunity = only 2 spells deals damage to her, from mage spell Horrid wilting for 5-15! and from cleric spell firestorm for 10-20! (druid version which could be empowered is lvl 7 and there for she immune) so there are 2 ways at killing her, only 1 of them legit (exploit free) and that is implosion. Which btw works veryvery well.. Moad has 34fort save, max DC for the spell in guestion is 38, ad a bard in party and you are watching at 25% chance of failure, when a caster cleric has tops 9 casts/day we are talking about 90+% success without rest needed.
Okey so moad has crappy saves and so does all eternal dragons, but even others can be dropped by implosion, thou instead of 25% you are looking at 5% - thou a 1 can be rolled on 1st cast - where as 30th, matter of luck.. I've seen them all go down by first cast, except the bird mentioned earlier due HIGH spellresistance and for cleric being rather useless there to take it anyway. So what i'm asking here is wether Kal is intested adding immunity to this specific spell or leaving as it is for bosses. (On a side note MoaD need other changes aswell if this is changed or she cant be killed without exploit, maybe also change players required from 10 to like 4-6)
Have couple other things on my mind aswell, but those better not to put on public forum.
[before 1.67 implosion caused no problems as it was stopped by death magic immunity - vanilla poa is updated pre 1.67.]
Maybe should of started this as different topic, but too lazy and i apologise for that.
Implosion is being more of a problem in players use than NPCs, as above mentioned bird is only one to use it. It can be seen on low fort on almost every lvl 20 enemy there (all normal drows for example having like tops 23fort). Some even of the higher level things has tiny fort save. Maybe should of noted this as PM to Kal but opening public discussion about implosion being used by players on bosses here. Best example here would be MoaD, currently (if Kal hasnt fixed her) only damage type that works on her are rare types (divine, negative, positive and magic) and even from those magical is about 80% immunity + she has un reachable AC + spell level 7 and down immunity = only 2 spells deals damage to her, from mage spell Horrid wilting for 5-15! and from cleric spell firestorm for 10-20! (druid version which could be empowered is lvl 7 and there for she immune) so there are 2 ways at killing her, only 1 of them legit (exploit free) and that is implosion. Which btw works veryvery well.. Moad has 34fort save, max DC for the spell in guestion is 38, ad a bard in party and you are watching at 25% chance of failure, when a caster cleric has tops 9 casts/day we are talking about 90+% success without rest needed.
Okey so moad has crappy saves and so does all eternal dragons, but even others can be dropped by implosion, thou instead of 25% you are looking at 5% - thou a 1 can be rolled on 1st cast - where as 30th, matter of luck.. I've seen them all go down by first cast, except the bird mentioned earlier due HIGH spellresistance and for cleric being rather useless there to take it anyway. So what i'm asking here is wether Kal is intested adding immunity to this specific spell or leaving as it is for bosses. (On a side note MoaD need other changes aswell if this is changed or she cant be killed without exploit, maybe also change players required from 10 to like 4-6)
Have couple other things on my mind aswell, but those better not to put on public forum.
Re: About the UB3RL33T CH1CK3N 0F D00M
Hello Fallen and welcome to the forums.
I'm currently compiling a list of beasties that need re-balancing because of changes since active development of the module ceased. The first changes were put in today which reintroduce harm immunity and a level of magic resist on one end game boss. Those I remember being in place on the AW servers but I've also taken the opportunity to make sure a certain other spell isn't going to single shot the battle.
I've been thinking about MoaD and how to make her a very difficult but still possible challenge without relying on a single spell. I have a few ideas of my own but would welcome those of other people. This is another case of not wanting to tinker too much with the PoA module as it was distributed for fear of making it not PoA any more. I like the idea of reducing the size of a MoaD hunting party to something a little more achievable with the current server population. I'll probably make some change to that in the near future and possibly revert it back to the standard value if the server gets more popular.
I'm currently compiling a list of beasties that need re-balancing because of changes since active development of the module ceased. The first changes were put in today which reintroduce harm immunity and a level of magic resist on one end game boss. Those I remember being in place on the AW servers but I've also taken the opportunity to make sure a certain other spell isn't going to single shot the battle.
I've been thinking about MoaD and how to make her a very difficult but still possible challenge without relying on a single spell. I have a few ideas of my own but would welcome those of other people. This is another case of not wanting to tinker too much with the PoA module as it was distributed for fear of making it not PoA any more. I like the idea of reducing the size of a MoaD hunting party to something a little more achievable with the current server population. I'll probably make some change to that in the near future and possibly revert it back to the standard value if the server gets more popular.
Re: About the UB3RL33T CH1CK3N 0F D00M
About the chicken, yeah I suppose I could build a character solely for the purpouse of killing the chicken. Then again, the elixirs he drops are hardly worth the time it takes to level a new character (as easy as it might be). And yeah, you could solo the chicken in old AW (I did it often with my palace fighter).
About Implosion and bosses. I'd rather see MOADs damage immunities be nerfed and her gain immunity to Implosion than playing roulette on MOAD and other bosses. Other bosses are fine without Implosion as it is, although they might take a little longer to kill. But if this server is to be true to the original AW server, then, IMO, Implosion has to go. Both from players and NPCs.
On old AW, players couldn't gib bosses with Implosion, and bosses couldn't gib players with it.
EDIT: Oh, and I second Fallen's idea of lowering number requirement from 10 to 4-6 to enter MOADs lair. Else it'll take a very long time until we'll see anyone trying her.
About Implosion and bosses. I'd rather see MOADs damage immunities be nerfed and her gain immunity to Implosion than playing roulette on MOAD and other bosses. Other bosses are fine without Implosion as it is, although they might take a little longer to kill. But if this server is to be true to the original AW server, then, IMO, Implosion has to go. Both from players and NPCs.
On old AW, players couldn't gib bosses with Implosion, and bosses couldn't gib players with it.
EDIT: Oh, and I second Fallen's idea of lowering number requirement from 10 to 4-6 to enter MOADs lair. Else it'll take a very long time until we'll see anyone trying her.
Re: About the UB3RL33T CH1CK3N 0F D00M
[quote Khaine]About the chicken, yeah I suppose I could build a character solely for the purpouse of killing the chicken. Then again, the elixirs he drops are hardly worth the time it takes to level a new character (as easy as it might be). And yeah, you could solo the chicken in old AW (I did it often with my palace fighter).[/quote]
Sure it is soloable by palace fighter, i just prefer using faster ways than spanking 4k'ish hp by rolling 20s that deals 40-60 damage a hit with 5attacks/round
As for making char solely for that might be a bit harsh way to say it. Here we get to the discussion of whch is better pure sorc or with 1 lvl of pala/bard, which we alrdy had in game a week ago or so.. I mean yeah, making a char that can solo chicken coup, abyss and many of the eternal dragons is in some's opinion - hardly worth the time. Sure, it does take longer to solo those, when you might aswell just go with pure sorc and have another player to do tanking for you
Suppose thats enough of that.
Back with implosions. Implosion spell was changed after tresspasser finished updateing mod and alan/scorp/olorin were focused on building their epic server, which left vanilla poa to die via updates, 1.67 really hit it badly via implosion and damage immunitie fix (before that immunnity over 100 turned into vulnerability, say 150% immunity is 50% vulnerability). Which is also why old timers remember Moad being killed by meteors dealing 100+ a pop and melee hitting her for 80-130
As for this certain end game boss did infact have 10 magic resist & harm immunity up to update that added dancing longbows, when his gear was changed and most likely by accident those were forgotten, thou he got that nice shiny axe of his - a bit before 1.67 came out.
Sure it is soloable by palace fighter, i just prefer using faster ways than spanking 4k'ish hp by rolling 20s that deals 40-60 damage a hit with 5attacks/round
As for making char solely for that might be a bit harsh way to say it. Here we get to the discussion of whch is better pure sorc or with 1 lvl of pala/bard, which we alrdy had in game a week ago or so.. I mean yeah, making a char that can solo chicken coup, abyss and many of the eternal dragons is in some's opinion - hardly worth the time. Sure, it does take longer to solo those, when you might aswell just go with pure sorc and have another player to do tanking for you
Suppose thats enough of that.
Back with implosions. Implosion spell was changed after tresspasser finished updateing mod and alan/scorp/olorin were focused on building their epic server, which left vanilla poa to die via updates, 1.67 really hit it badly via implosion and damage immunitie fix (before that immunnity over 100 turned into vulnerability, say 150% immunity is 50% vulnerability). Which is also why old timers remember Moad being killed by meteors dealing 100+ a pop and melee hitting her for 80-130
As for this certain end game boss did infact have 10 magic resist & harm immunity up to update that added dancing longbows, when his gear was changed and most likely by accident those were forgotten, thou he got that nice shiny axe of his - a bit before 1.67 came out.
Re: About the UB3RL33T CH1CK3N 0F D00M
If anyone can remember the details of that updated axe and would care to pass them on via a PM the I'd be very grateful. I've reinstated the resistance and immunity that I know about and taken something else into account also, but it would be nice to reinstate the weapon as it was intended.
Re: About the UB3RL33T CH1CK3N 0F D00M
Yeah as Fallen said, chicken can be done in 15-30 min with the right tactics. I used a palace char to do chicken in that time frame on a 1.69 updated 20-level poa server, i.e. cheet's server, and AW POA. I agree that immo's axe needs update, but I caution not to overdo the modifications. I believe the players are here for a reason, that they love the plain 'ol 20-level poa, or else they'd be on Higher Ground that have a lot more bells and whistles.
Re: About the UB3RL33T CH1CK3N 0F D00M
My take on the matter: Leave the chicken as it is, it never was much of a problem child
And since not only chicken is being discussed, what I would love to see is:
- Eternal Dragons and their momma immune to Implosion, I support it with the sheer size of the things, they would not fit through such a small vortex
And as far as MoaD is concerned I would just make her vulnerable to Meteor Swarm (I mean vulnerable and suffering from it, so low enough reflexes, possibly no improved evasion). Both these ideas are kind of making mages the only optimal killers, and yes, they are a bit nostalgic
- Instead of making Queen and Immortal Implosion immune (might have crossed your minds, well, it did cross mine) I'd try scripting a sort of second save, for example one with a 1d4 roll , so a 1 on the regular fortitude save and then a 1 on this "Implosion save" would kill them, which would make the chances of that happening close to 1%... I think 5% is a bit too high. Or maybe it would be easier to override the 1d20 save roll with a 1d100.
- A comeback of Firebrand, it used to be about the greatest thing about a mage to time stop and finish off a Matron or a Weapon Master, and it took some skills. What I have in mind here is nerfing the reflex save of Drows or overriding the spell with the "old times" statistics - halved damage for successful roll it was or something like that. Also on the Implosion issue, perhaps increasing Drows' fortitude a bit.
That would be my idea of getting the old spirit back into the module.
And since not only chicken is being discussed, what I would love to see is:
- Eternal Dragons and their momma immune to Implosion, I support it with the sheer size of the things, they would not fit through such a small vortex
And as far as MoaD is concerned I would just make her vulnerable to Meteor Swarm (I mean vulnerable and suffering from it, so low enough reflexes, possibly no improved evasion). Both these ideas are kind of making mages the only optimal killers, and yes, they are a bit nostalgic
- Instead of making Queen and Immortal Implosion immune (might have crossed your minds, well, it did cross mine) I'd try scripting a sort of second save, for example one with a 1d4 roll , so a 1 on the regular fortitude save and then a 1 on this "Implosion save" would kill them, which would make the chances of that happening close to 1%... I think 5% is a bit too high. Or maybe it would be easier to override the 1d20 save roll with a 1d100.
- A comeback of Firebrand, it used to be about the greatest thing about a mage to time stop and finish off a Matron or a Weapon Master, and it took some skills. What I have in mind here is nerfing the reflex save of Drows or overriding the spell with the "old times" statistics - halved damage for successful roll it was or something like that. Also on the Implosion issue, perhaps increasing Drows' fortitude a bit.
That would be my idea of getting the old spirit back into the module.
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Flex Buffchest
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:56 pm
Re: About the UB3RL33T CH1CK3N 0F D00M
A lot of the changes you guys are suggesting sound a bit foreign to me. Maybe that's because I started playing right after the update that added dancing long bows. Most of these "problems" just make the mod feel like home imo. However, I do agree with moad door requiring a few less party members, and having the possibility to kill moad with something besides implosion.
Chicken's fine. Queen's fine (if you implode her you suck). Immo's fine if he has 10/- mag resist. If you guys want to kill implosion all together, then go for it. It will make the mod different from what I'm used to, but it's not gonna stop me from playing at your server.
Just my two cents.
Flex
Chicken's fine. Queen's fine (if you implode her you suck). Immo's fine if he has 10/- mag resist. If you guys want to kill implosion all together, then go for it. It will make the mod different from what I'm used to, but it's not gonna stop me from playing at your server.
Just my two cents.
Flex